We atheists know that creationism relies on bad logic and laughable arguments. Here’s what’s super interesting (though not at all surprising): anti-feminist creationists and anti-feminist atheists use the same shitty logic and laughable arguments when it comes to crapping on women!
Over the on Uncommon Descent – a site “serving the intelligent design community – someone going by “scordova” tries to beat up on Rebecca Watson using basically the same ridiculous nonsense reactionary and hateful atheists have been using to try and pillory her about being a woman for years. What’s super amusing is that the writer thanks Thunderf00t for tipping them off to how messed up and female Rebecca is. Has Mr. Give-me-leg-biting-or-give-me-death decided that crushing female resistance is more important than his atheistic principles, or did creationists just hear about Ms. Watson’s crimes against masculinity through his “work”? Probably the latter, but the idea of these skeptical atheists who hyperventilate over uppity ladies deciding that feminism is an enemy-of-my-enemy-is-my-friend situation and allying themselves with creationist lunatics is…sort of delightful.
Anyhow, go read the piece and wonder at this moment of unity: a creationist making an atheist’s arguments. It’s pretty spectacular.
MRAs, anti-feminists, and general dudebros are fond of responding to feminists and just-not-horrible people (especially women) by
whining making strongly worded claims of misandry. Inspired by the amazing How To Be A Reverse-Racist: An Actual Step by Step List For Oppressing White People by A. D. Song and Mia McKenzie I’ve created this handy guide to using the inherently unfair (to men) system to create a gynocratic fempire that I would like to call Misandria.
[Trigger Warning for a list of sarcastic, but graphic ways in which one gender has treated another over the centuries.]
Today I’m sharing a guest post from Huey P. Newton, one of the co-founders of the Black Panther Party. I love, love, love this piece because it represents exactly the kind of self-reflection that inspired me and that we hope to inspire here at More Than Men. This is the entire text of a speech Newton delivered on August 15, 1970. Enjoy.
During the past few years strong movements have developed among women and among homosexuals seeking their liberation. There has been some uncertainty about how to relate to these movements.
Whatever your personal opinions and your insecurities about homosexuality and the various liberation movements among homosexuals and women (and I speak of the homosexuals and women as oppressed groups), we should try to unite with them in a revolutionary fashion.
I say ”whatever your insecurities are” because as we very well know, sometimes our first instinct is to want to hit a homosexual in the mouth, and want a woman to be quiet. We want to hit a homosexual in the mouth because we are afraid that we might be homosexual; and we want to hit the women or shut her up because we are afraid that she might castrate us, or take the nuts that we might not have to start with.
We must gain security in ourselves and therefore have respect and feelings for all oppressed people. We must not use the racist attitude that the white racists use against our people because they are Black and poor. Many times the poorest white person is the most racist because he is afraid that he might lose something, or discover something that he does not have. So you’re some kind of a threat to him. This kind of psychology is in operation when we view oppressed people and we are angry with them because of their particular kind of behavior, or their particular kind of deviation from the established norm.
Remember, we have not established a revolutionary value system; we are only in the process of establishing it. I do not remember our ever constituting any value that said that a revolutionary must say offensive things towards homosexuals, or that a revolutionary should make sure that women do not speak out about their own particular kind of oppression. As a matter of fact, it is just the opposite: we say that we recognize the women’s right to be free. We have not said much about the homosexual at all, but we must relate to the homosexual movement because it is a real thing. And I know through reading, and through my life experience and observations that homosexuals are not given freedom and liberty by anyone in the society. They might be the most oppressed people in the society.
Those of us who argue for diversity are prone to empathy. We not only see that our position is logical and reasonable, but we are passionate about it. We feel about these things very strongly. These issues matter to us very much. It’s why we’re so prone to burnout. We pour are hearts into this and it hurts us when we’re attacked about these things. Since More Than Men started at the beginning of the year I have felt used up and beat up and emotionally exhausted several times, and I don’t even get the worst sort of abuse. The only rape threat I ever received was from someone who didn’t even care enough to notice that I’m a guy.
Sometimes it is really, really hard to tell when a commenter on something we write or say is naively trying to learn more or is a troll. The fact is that there are some horrible people who use a cloak of “just asking questions” to try and get through our emotional armor and muddy the water at the same time. “Just asking questions” gives them a plausible deniability, tricks us into engaging longer than we should, and helps them get their logical fallacies out into the world for more innocent people to encounter. These trolls are smart. They know what sorts of questions people who haven’t really looked at the issues as closely as we have might ask while they’re trying to form an opinion. They ask those questions, they twist those questions. They shift goal-posts. They start building straw men. All in the name of “just asking questions.”
This is not what harassment policies are about.
As an organizer for my local Skeptic group, it was important to me to include an anti-harassment policy. My co-organizer and I very much wanted the gender ratio to be as close to 50/50 as it could be, for both speakers and attendees. To that end I wanted a good anti-harassment policy in place. I never imagined that it would be an issue. I guess at heart I’ve been far too much of an optimist.
Obviously it didn’t happen that way. The incidents are probably well known to you if you’re reading this and I don’t really have any desire to go into a detailed analysis of them. I do, however, want to address something that was brought up over and over again in the maelstrom that followed the incident and post on SkepChick. It was continuously brought up that our anti-harassment policy was “sex negative”. In essence – that we were trying to keep people from having sex. I found these comments rather perplexing. For one thing – why is having sex that important at a Skeptic conference? I’m in a long-term monogamous relationship, but even if I wasn’t I wouldn’t be looking at Skeptic conferences to have sex. Maybe I’m a bit naive about these things.
Saladin Ahmed is a Muslim, Arab-American fantasy writer. (If you enjoy fantastic fiction, I recommend his novel Throne of the Crescent Moon.) As you’d expect he’s experienced some racism and religious bigotry directed at he and his family, especially since 2001. Last August he was asked if that hate was something he had experienced in the publishing trade, to which he replied:
“…talking about this or that sector of society as being less or more racist is kind of like talking about this or that part of the ocean being less or more wet.”
In the past I’ve tried, in my own crude way, to make the point that we skeptics and atheists are a part of the world. We’re not magically immune to social attitudes. Our society is racist, it is sexist, it is homophobic, it is transphobic, it is ableist. All of us, even people who are members of an oppressed group face a barrage of unfiltered hate. This prejudice is so pervasive – is presented so confidently as just common sense – that we have to work to question it. I don’t know about you, but I am human. My brain is not optimized for perfect rationality 24/7. Things slip through, especially when I was a child and I was learning, especially when I think I’m not learning. As a skeptic we all have moments where we realized that something we believe is not factually true. How did we come to believe that thing? Someone taught us. Maybe it was a person, maybe it was just something we absorbed unconsciously as “common sense.”
Declaring that you are a skeptic or that you are an atheist doesn’t make you immune to society’s influence. Whether you believe that society is racist, homophobic, or misogynist because of religion or if you take my view and believe that religion is racist, homophobic, and misogynist because society is all of those things, you are still swimming in the ocean of human culture. It’s wet here and we need to remember that when we’re making decisions and drawing conclusions about other people.
We’re still working on building our list of secular/skeptical/science events with harassment policies. It’s grown some since we started, but we need your help. Even if you don’t know about the policy, please comment here with the name of an event you attend or organize and, ideally, a link to their webpage. I’ll do the work of tracking down a policy they may have that we can’t find.
I think this is a non-controversial but important step. The more it becomes the norm for our events to articulate their willingness and desire to make everyone welcome the better things will be for everyone who attends. (After we have a good frip on harassment policies I hope to start a similar resource for disability accommodations.)
I’m a big fan of the Secular Student Alliance. For more than a decade they have been helping secular students organize for mutual support and activism. They provide resources to students, educators, and alumni to make schools safer and more welcoming for secularists. They are a true grass roots organization that is training and empowering the next generation of secular leaders and thinkers. They are also more diverse than most secular groups with older memberships. All this is awesome stuff and I’m a moral as well as financial supporter.
Running an international group that does everything the SSA does takes money. It takes the help of people like me and you. This week is SSA Week, where the SSA is trying to raise $100,000 by June 16th. Right now SSA supporters Jeff Hawkins and Janet Strauss have pledged a $250,000 matching offer. What that means is that every dollar you donate is doubled. This is amazingly generous of Hawkins and Strauss and this week is our chance to make a huge difference in the future of secularism.
Like a lot of bloggers I’ve created my own fundraising page for SSA Week. Like a lot of bloggers I’m offering a personal reward for those who donate. Between now and June 16th, if you go and donate through my page I will create a personalized nickname just for you! I’m actually pretty good at nicknames. My younger brother is named Frank but I started calling him Dewey and now we all do. You too could have an awesome nickname! Just go donate $5 or more, and be sure to opt in to the “Honor Roll” so I can see who has made a donation. I’ll be updating this post with the awesome nicknames people have received. (If you would like to donate without a sweet nickname, you can definitely do that. If you would like your donation and nickname to be private, just send me an email with your receipt and you’ll get your nickname privately.)
Sweet Nicknames for people who have donated:
- Christopher “The Swingin’ Vegan” Baker
- Sarah “Broslayer” Moglia
- Benjamin “Osmium Ben” Stonier
- Anne “The Professor” Sauer
Brianne “Nomadic Lens” Bilyeu
- Kate “Juice” Baker
- “Cavalry” Carl Tracy
By Zeke Russell - 04 Jun 2012
(More Than Men has addressed “the friendzone” before. Here’s a poem on a related topic by the Slam Master of Mill City Slam in Lowell, MA. – Sasha)
that if anyone saves me in my hour of need
it will be one of my ex-girlfriends.
got me a job
when I was destitute.
who is a nurse
treated the cut on my arm
when I didn’t have health insurance
it would have gone septic she said
if I’d waited any longer.
My ex Rebekah
is a lawyer
haven’t needed her yet
but I will.
All these women
still in my life
Maybe I learned it from my folks
married for two years
divorced for 25
when my father died
no one wept
harder than my mother.
And I know
it can tear you up
to see an old lover
with someone else
it’s bad if they’re happy
it’s worse if they’re not.
But here’s the secret
when they ask me
during the break up
if we can still be friends
I know they’re trying to make an easy out
but I laugh
because I know something they don’t
they can’t sell me something
I’ve already got.
As I wrote on Wednesday, I don’t see how there is anything controversial about events having or enforcing policies about harassment. We’ve even started building a list of existing harassment policies at conferences as a resource for event organizers, attendees, and speakers. Unfortunately it does seem like a lot of people do think these policies are a bad idea for our events.
One reason I’ve seen given in opposition to harassment policies is that they are prudish and they inhibit the ability for adults to express their sexuality. Basically they say that these policies have a “chilling” effect on skeptics and atheists meeting and having sex at conferences. Others argue that not having and enforcing these policies have a “chilling” effect on women attending in large numbers.
Do policies regarding appropriate behavior at events inhibit anyone’s ability for consensual sex at these events? Is it the responsibility for skeptic and atheist event organizers to facilitate or even take in to account the ability of attendees to have sex at their events?